Thread: RAAF Shipping details

Originally Posted by berkyboy

Can anyone advise where I can gain details of the ship my brother embarked on from Melbourne, 27 September 1943 and arrived in San Francisco 16 O october 1943 en route to Great Britain As part of the Empire Air Training Scheme (EATS). He was killed in action 16 January 1945, Ray Berkyboy

Hi Berkyboy,

Name details etc may make it easier.

Hi Spidge,
The Only details that I have are that they embarked Melbourne 27 September 1943 and arrived San Francisco 16 October 1943-don't know how they travelled from USA to Great Britain, except that they arrived in Great Britain on 9 November 1943-have no idea how they spent 16/10/43-9/11/43.
He was a WAG in RAAF;His name was 419981 Laurence Collins & was eventually attached to the RAF 101 Squadron,killed in action 16 January 1945.
The shiping movements seem to be a "war time secret operation"
Berkyboy

Put plainly - all WW2 shipping movements were a "war time secret operation"

I read a biography of an Australian army officer sent to the UK about six months after your brother and his group caught a ship to San Francisco where they then took a train to travel to the other coast from where they caught another ship to England.


I don't know what you already know about his death so here goes:

Casualty; Aircraft - Lancaster LM 472; Place - Blauen, Germany (target Czechoslavakia); Date - 16 January 1945

It was a typical polyglot crew, three Aussie, one Canuck and the rest RAF (I think - going off the service numbers) -

COLLINS, Laurence - (Warrant Officer); Service Number - 419981

HART, WARREN ROCHESTER LEE – (Flight Sergeant); Service Number – 429458 (RAAF - also killed 16Jan45)

KNIGHT, Jack Edward – (Flight Sergeant); Service Number – 429068 (Navigator - RAAF - survived the crash and was discharged in November 1945 - was a POW and the only survivor of the crew. Aircraft exploded in mid-air following a fire, Knight was blown out of the aircraft and survived with severe injuries / burns)

MCCONIGLE, FREDERICK DESMOND (Son of Mrs. M. E. McGonigle, of Glasgow) – (Flying Officer); Service Number – 179064

MCDOWELL, JOHN RITCHIE (Son of John and Mary Ann McDowell, of Hillsborough, Co. Down, Northern Ireland) – (Sergeant); Service Number – 1798275

BECKET, ROBERT JOHN – (Sergeant); Service Number – 1482487

CONROY, DANIEL – (Sergeant); Service Number – 1881462

ARMOUR, JACK KARL (Husband of Margaret Alice Armour, of Hamilton, Ontario, Canada) – (Pilot Officer); Service Number – J/43497 (RCAF)

Oddly enough, Becket and Conroy don't have any NOK detail against their CWGC entries.

On the casualty files for the Australians are notes referring to correspondence sent from the father of Sergeant McDowell to the families of the RAAF crewmen.

(Article from:Ulster Star (Lisburn, Northern Ireland) Article date:May 15, 2007 - AN AUSTRALIAN had made an appeal to local people in a last ditch effort to find out about an RAF Sergeant from Hillsborough who died on the same flight as his older brother during the war.

Ray Collins, who is 74 and lives in Mebourne, is trying to locate family, friends, or acquaintances of Sergeant John Ritchie McDowell (Jimmy), attached to the 101 Squadron at Ludford Magna, Lincolnshire.)

I forgot to mention that your brother's service file is OPEN status which means that if you contact the National Archives of Australia and request it to be scanned and loaded to their website for anyone to read it will only cost you around $20 and take a few weeks to occur.

His casualty file is already loaded, which is where I got all of my info from. His service file will most probably have the details on which ships were used to move him to the UK (plus various other info).


I notice in your query you keep saying "they" - do you have the details on other personnel who travelled with your brother to the UK? If so, post those details so I can check to see if the movement records are available for them.

Thanks Dave, for you help & information.
I have all the details of the crew, and have been able to contact most of their families (been searching for info for about 11 years, the last 4 by computer-which I'm really not "flash hot" on) the missing crew members families are R.J. Becket, (Unable to trace) & D. Conroy (Possibly from Dublin). John Knight was taken POW,and died in 1999-I have met one of his sons on a recent trip to Sydney As a detective, I "don't have many clues". I have Laurie's Service File (It only says embarked Melb. & date of arrival San Francisco) He spent from16/10/43 in USA (or Canida), and arrived in UK 9/11/43 & 11PDRC 10/11/1943. I have applied for his Casualty file.
I have no idea who he was with on the journey to UK, but just used the royal "they".
The NAA web site is a difficult one to follow (for me)- I live i n Melbourne.
Thanks Dave, Berkyboy (Ray)

Ray - not wanting to teach you how to suck eggs, but the Casualty file you are waiting for is already freely available to be read online, along with the Casualty file for HART.

The simplest way to read them is to go to the National Archives of Australia website - National Archives of Australia and click on "Record Search" in the top RH corner. Then in the middle of the page should appear "Search Now as a guest" - click on that and a new page will open with "General Search" at the top and in the first open box type in your Brother's service number only and press the SEARCH button down on the left.

The next page just tells you how many files match the number (5 in this case, of which 4 refer to your Brother) - press "Display" to get to the actual file headers. Then click on the button that says "View digital copy" next to either of the two casualty files.

Use the arrow buttons to go through the file and use the "enlarge" option if something is hard to read.

I reckon the best part about having the files online is that you can easily get help to translate terms and acronyms etc from people in any part of the world.

Dave-Thank you unravelling the mysteries of National Archives web site-I really don't mind being "taught how to suck eags" wen it is explained to me in such simple terms. I found some very interesting items, and sometimes very desturbing ones, in the casualty file.Even though I have attempted previously, this is the first tim that I have been able to "get" information from the site. I also accessed Warren Hart's file, and found several details that wern't in my brother, Laurie's, file.The only problems that I have are, 1No details of the ship,& 2.No further details on the missing families of Bob Becket or Dan Conroy.
hank you for your tremendous assistance.
Ray

Originally Posted by berkyboy

Hi Spidge,
The Only details that I have are that they embarked Melbourne 27 September 1943 and arrived San Francisco 16 October 1943-don't know how they travelled from USA to Great Britain, except that they arrived in Great Britain on 9 November 1943-have no idea how they spent 16/10/43-9/11/43.
He was a WAG in RAAF;His name was 419981 Laurence Collins & was eventually attached to the RAF 101 Squadron,killed in action 16 January 1945.
The shiping movements seem to be a "war time secret operation"
Berkyboy

Hi Ray,

An interesting website which states that the US destroyed all information on Troop Ship sailings in 1951.

This may give you a clue and there is an email to a crew member of the ship.

43-09-25

San Francisco
CA

West Point
(AP23)

7,979 passengers

sailed alone

Sydney,
Australia

43-10-10

West Point crewman
W. McLain

From this page:

1943 Troop Ship Crossings - July to December

Searched San Francisco. Allow sailing time Melbourne to Sydney and it may match.

Left New York?

Arrival date does not match however it could have sailed on from Wales!!!

43-10-10

New York,
NY
(Brooklyn Army Base)

Robin Sherwood

604th Engineer Camouflage Battalion (472 officers & enlisted men)

In convoy (number unknown)

Cardiff,
Wales,
United Kingdom

43-11-06

Joseph Walter Watson
(who was on board as a member of the 3rd Platoon, Company B)