Private Edwin Simpson WW1

[CTNana]

I was trying to get a photograph of this Gentleman's grave for Sniper but sadly it is now illegible. A local historian has just sent me this copy which was taken in the 1960's and understand that he is to be part of a local history feature this autumn.

I would love to be able to provide the History Society with some more details and know that you guys could save me a great deal of work by just pointing me in the right direction. There is a discrepancy in the Service number shown and that according to CWGC records; is this significant? Any advice will be very gratefully received.

p.s. Sniper if you are reading this do you want a copy? (Don't know who to credit it to though!!)

[Kyt]

Hi Nana

I don't think it is a mistake on the memorial - looks more like a 6 than an 8, and it's just the weathering/pixels. The shape seems more similar to the other 6 than the 8.

What info are you after? A general history of the 78th during that period?

[Kyt]

A basic outline:

The 78th Battalion (Winnipeg Grenadiers) was part of the 12th Infantry Brigade, which was part of the 4th Canadian Division.

4th Division

12th Infantry Brigade

The Brigades Diary has been photostated and is available to view online:

WAR DIARIES OF THE FIRST WORLD WAR

No 12 covers the period during which Simpson was injured.

Your historian friend may like to examine the original documents.

[CTNana]

Originally Posted by Kyt

Hi Nana

I don't think it is a mistake on the memorial - looks more like a 6 than an 8, and it's just the weathering/pixels. The shape seems more similar to the other 6 than the 8.

What info are you after? A general history of the 78th during that period?

I read 624687? but CWGC have 826506.

He was apparently the first person in his area to volunteer (and sadly the first to be killed too). He was taken from Vimy Ridge to a hospital in Halifax where he died some 7 weeks later.

His family have given me a lovely photograph of him and a very long newspaper cutting of the military funeral afforded him. I presume that the Historical Society will focus on his Northamptonshire ties but having just read about Vimy Ridge it would be nice to put his sacrifice into the perspectives of the battle, his regiment and WW1 (if that isn't too tall an order).

My email has just dinged (you're too quick for me Kyt, but I just knew you would know where to look). I'm sure my Historian contact who has been tremendously helpful regarding my photos, would love to access those documents and is probably way ahead of me anyway!!!

[Kyt]

Hi Nana

this is our man - 826506 is a WW2 casualty

Name: SIMPSON, EDWIN WILLIAM
Initials: E W
Nationality: Canadian
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment)
Unit Text: 78th Bn.
Age: 20
Date of Death: 30/05/1917
Service No: 624687
Additional information: Son of Walter and Margaret Ann Simpson, of Leduc, Alberta, Canada.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 229. (In South part of new ground).
Cemetery: PYTCHLEY (ALL SAINTS) CHURCHYARD

[CTNana]

Originally Posted by Kyt

Hi Nana

this is our man - 826506 is a WW2 casualty

Sapper Percy James in fact - oh no yet another senior moment! I've queried it with CWGC and his family but it was me reading the line above on the next page of a print out!!!!!

Moving swiftly on .....

His funeral seems to have been a very grand affair with a "war wagon draped with the Union Jack and drawn by four mules" and "a gun detail, in double file with arms reversed". Was that normal practice?

[Kyt]

Originally Posted by CTNana

Moving swiftly on .....

oh so temped to make some joke but I shan't

His funeral seems to have been a very grand affair with a "war wagon draped with the Union Jack and drawn by four mules" and "a gun detail, in double file with arms reversed". Was that normal practice?

The horse/mule and carriages does sound rather grand to us but was a sign of the local community's esteem for the ward casualties at that time. And the numbers who died and were buried in Britain during WW1, as oppossed to in France itself, were very small, and so most funerals would have been well organised, attended and reported.

Adrian is well read on WW1 and I'm sure he'll be able to shed some light on this.

[rlaughton]

The Canadian arrives with information. Maybe new, maybe old, but we are Canadian and we live with these issues. Some of this may be repetitive but I like to form a paper trail, or a cyber trail, so that anyone (including myself) can go back and check it later. Days, months or years, who knows. We are looking at a lad that is 111 years old so who knows what our great grandchildren will be doing. They might just "beam over" to the graveyard and have a look for themselves. Think I am kidding? Ask Edwin if he thought we would be sending e-mail around the world in search of his records.

So as for Edwin William Simpson:

His Attestation Papers at Library and Archives Canada

From the Summary Table and references we know that he attested to the 151st Infantry Battalion out of Strathcona, Alberta. The unit had an initial strength of 925 men but it never served as a "fighting unit". Stewart tells us it was absorbed by the 11th and 21st Reserve Battalions to provide reinforcements for the Canadian Corps in the field. That does not help us in our hunt as it was the 18th Reserve that reinforced the 78th Infantry Battalion. Off to check Love's reference and he tells us that the 151st also fed men to the 9th Reserve Battalion, but same result as the 21st absorbed the 9th. Meek agrees with Love (all the reference documents are noted on the Matrix) and so that is the end of that path. What that tells us is that he did not go to the 78th in a group, he was sent there as an individual when the 78th needed reinforcements.

The 78th Battalion was a major fighting unit in the Canadian Expeditionary Force. It was in the 12th Infantry Brigade of the 4th Canadian Division, the last full division to be sent into the Great War from Canada (the 5th Division was dismantled in England to provide reserves for the 4 Divisions in France).

We know that Private Simpson was wounded at the infamous Battle of Vimy Ridge on April 9, 1917 - a major date in Canadian History. Given what went on that day it is unlikely he would be mentioned in the war diaries. However, since we did do a Vimy Ridge War Diary Project last year we know the records are detailed. Follow the page in that link down to the 4th Division, then to the 12th Infantry Brigade and to the 78th Battalion and you have the War Diary Page for April 9, 1917. Not too much there, they were very busy, but if you look at the page for the Vimy Project you will see also that there are pages in the appendices that are highlighted. Most Canadian war diaries have the details (often with maps) in the appendices. You can walk through any of the pages by just changing the last digit in the URL address. I will leave it to each of you to read the details, they can be summarized.

As for the battle, we can also take you to where the 4th Division was fighting on April 9, 1917. My best recollection was that the 4th Division was responsible for taking the PIMPLE, the hill to the north of Vimy. You can see exactly where the 78th Division was located if you head back to the Matrix and follow the Nicholson Matrix Utility (text and maps) to the battle location. The complete story of the Canadians at Vimy Ridge is detailed in Chapter 8 and the location of each of the units is shown on Map 7. For the real curious follower of the Great War I will leave it to you to then follow Map 7 onto Google Earth Map 7 so you can see where those locations are on a modern map of France. You will see the 78th Battalion at the front of the line, just south of Givenchy-en-Gohelle. On page 261, Nicholson reports that the 78th Battalion was under fire from Hill 145 (the principal objective of the 4th Division) and had a difficult fight. That I must presume is where Private Simpson was wounded, along with 25% of the battalion.

That is the war story of Private Edwin William Simpson, but then there is the family story of the man. Why was he in Canada, why was he taken back to Halifax when he was wounded, and then more intriguing is the question as to why he was taken back to Pytchley to be buried? We CAN order his service record and track all the details. It takes about 4 weeks to get the records and costs only about $30 Canadian, so if there is a real interest I will order his records and we should know the rest of the story by early May. That will tell us exactly how he got from the 151st to the 78th and how he ended up in Halifax. Sometimes there are surprises and you find out that is not what happened at all!

Stepping back in time a few years, I did find that Edwin William Simpson was in Strathcona, Alberta in 1911 as he and his family are listed in the 1991 Canadian Census. It appears today that it is a small county outside of the main city and capital EDMONTON, Alberta. You will see the SIMPSON FAMILY with the following members:

1. Walter Simpson, Head/Father October 1870
2. Dorothy Simpson, Mother October 1870
3. Edwin W Simpson, son February 1897
4. Arthe? Simpson, son June 1898
5. Albert Simpson, son May 1901
6. Edith Simpson, daughter 1903
7. Charles Simpson, son 1905
8. Allis Simpson, daughter 1907

Now as I have been told that attempts to find his brother in Bitten Lake, Alberta have been unsuccessful and that he likes to communicate by e-mail I must say MOST IMPRESSED as all of these family members are 100+ in age! Extra bonus find is that the family was there in 1901 as well as Edwin is listed in the 1901 Census.

Last item I should report is that Edwin William Simpson is listed at this link on the Virtual War Museum. That then takes you to his page on the VERY OFFICIAL Book of Remembrance in the main Parliament Buildings in Ottawa. This is a major item to see in in our Nation's Capital as each and every day of every year, the page is turned so you can see who is listed. Here is the page with Edwin William Simpson. You can order an official colour copy of that page if you wish.

I mention the VAC Virtual War Memorial as any pictures or items of Edwin Stanley Simpson should be submitted there and they will be added to his memorial. I would be pleased to do that on behalf of the group, if everyone can e-mail me their best copies of any pictures or documents.

I am sure I have missed something in all of this but I will add anything I missed or find at a later date.

Before I go, just a quick thanks to Edwin for what he did to make sure we could all be here today.

Richard

[CTNana]

Thank you so much Richard

You've just joined the heady heights of the rest of these guys (& girls)!

Doesn't it just go to show how much information you can glean if you know where to look?

I understand that he is buried in Pytchley because the family originated from there. He is in a family grave along with George Mobbs our local rugby hero after whom the famous cup is named.

I do have a small photo of him and a copy of the newspaper report of his funeral (although it is not a particularly good copy maybe it is possible to ascertain which local paper it was and get a better copy) and would seek his surviving brother's consent before forwarding them elsewhere.

Thank you again

[rlaughton]

CTNana:

I have sent you a PM with the local details that I could find. That place in Alberta does exist!

Also, as I can put in here but not in a PM (or can I?) is this the cemetery where he is buried?



If so, if someone is near to there can they:

- get a photo of the graveyard, as I have a contact at CWGC who will then upload that onto the CWGC site (I have a few for Canada on their now - they love the snow!)

- a new photo or 2 of the stone relative to some landmarks

- if possible a site map of the cemetery, to place his marker on Google Earth and also to give to CWGC (they say he is a marker 229 in the south or new part of the cemetery)

Thanks,

Richard

(see I am sidetracked again .... I came here to see more about WWII!) ... but I love it, the best of all worlds!

I have a brother in law who is nuts about the Napoleonic Wars so I will send him over as well.