Was Britain the greatest loser?

[Kyt]

It's a given that the Axis countries lost the war. And we also know that many countries were subjugated by the Soviet Union.

However, of the victors (and in some sense the losers) did Britain end up losing the most from the war?

The post-war economy meant that the British population was actually worse off than during the war. Rationing not only continued but became stricter.

Britain started losing its empire from 1947.

It's political position, internationally, lost much of its clout to the US, Russia, and in a sense to the formation of closer bonds bewteen European countries.

So did it actually come off worse than the real losers? What were the gains from winning the war (apart from the obvious of not being under Nazi rule)?

[Roxy]

I think that you have a fair point. I have read it put more elloquently than I could (IIRC by Niall Ferguson) that Britain knew the potential outcome of the Second World War and the greatest sacrifice was that it continued on a track that it knew to be right.

Roxy

[Antipodean Andy]

With particular regard to Europe, I always find it darkly amusing that the Continent tends to have a overall dim view of Britain. I mean, who kept pressing on against the odds (from the start) for a free Europe?

Perhaps Britain could be regarded as the greatest loser because it had the most to lose?

On a flippant side, don't worry, we still love ya!

[Interrogator#6]

Yes. But it does has the legacy of the Commonwealth. And Nato. Britain's political and eonomic influence is far more extensive than that which another nation of similar population or economy.

[morse1001]

This a very difficult question to answer because like so many on this baord, they need a larger format in order to answer it properly.

There are many schools of thought that now suggest that the denuding of British gold reserves was part of the foriegn policy of the Roosevelt administration to weaken Britian in order to remve it from the superpower stage. America asked for and got, payment for the various weapons and material supplied to Britian, in the form of gold. Not only that, but also Britian had to pay the full price.

The net result was that at the end of the war, Britian and her dominions may have been victorious on the battlefield but on the economic front, she was defeated. No longer able to afford to finance her overseas commitments, she gave them up in order to save much needed money to fuel the newly born Welfare state.

Such was that state of British military finances, that when Korea started, 27 Brigade who were sent out, was nicknamed "The Woolworth" Brigade on account of the story, which said that when they were ordered to prepare, the Quartermaster went down to the local woolworths to get the missing kit!

As for Germany, in many cases it was a great experiment, where many, up till then, theoretical ideas were put into practise and as a result, Germany prospered.



I would agree that Britian was a overall loser in WW2 and in the post war period.

[spidge]

When did Britain pay its last instalment of WW2 debt to the United States?

2006/7?

Says it all!

[Hugh]

Originally Posted by Interrogator#6

Yes. But it does has the legacy of the Commonwealth. And Nato. Britain's political and eonomic influence is far more extensive than that which another nation of similar population or economy.

Interesting thread. Interrogator makes an good point though. We have lost our empire and really most of our power. But we still have a seat at the top five in the Security Council, although for how much longer I dont know. For our size and population we still punch above our weight. We still take on military commitments that, given the reduction in our armed services and merchant fleet, make us over streatched to say the least. We are still in demand though.

Agree that we have lost the most out of the peace

Spidge, you raise an interesting point regarding the debt we have recently repaid to the USA. Why I wonder was it seen as a UK debt?

Regards
Hugh

[Antipodean Andy]

Originally Posted by spidge

When did Britain pay its last instalment of WW2 debt to the United States?

2006/7?

Says it all!

Oh, you've got to be joking, surely?!

[Adrian Roberts]

Originally Posted by spidge
When did Britain pay its last instalment of WW2 debt to the United States?

2006/7?

Says it all!

Oh, you've got to be joking, surely?!

He's not joking - I remember reading only a couple of years ago that we had just finished paying off the Americans.

But did we fare the worst of any country, post-war?

We didn't have to endure forty-five years of Communist darkness, with no certainty that it would ever end, as the East European countries did.

Its not certain that the communists would have taken over China, either - there would have been a lot of guerilla warfare but if the Kuomintang was not pre-occupied with defeating the Japanese, the communists might have been beaten. And although it is now communist in name only, the regime derived from the communists is still one of the most repressive in the world. (I can say that, I haven't been selected for the Olympic Team, surprise surprise!)

And how about the Palestinians, forcibly ejected from their land by refugees leaving Europe after the war?

[Antipodean Andy]

Big sigh! Didn't the Americans forgive the Russians of some debt recently?

Yes, the Palestinians rejected from their land. Land becomes Israel, then Israel shoots down RAF aircraft!