Thread: 48 Squadron and the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau

I've worked out that 48 sqdn was a Coastal Command unit operating Hudsons at the time. Therefore unlikely to be involved in the "Channel Dash" except indirectly.

I think you can take it that the date on the Runnymede Memorial, or the CWGC site, is the date that they actually went missing. This is assuming there is no doubt about the date which for aircrew there usually isn't, but also assuming it is recorded correctly, which it occassionally isn't.

the channel dash is an od one. technically it was royal navy and castal command that were involved, but I am sure i have read in some memoirs that bomber and fighter command joined in to to try and destroy the three ships, all failing.

it may be your cousin was just lost on the same day and the myth grew up around the date. can you get to Kew to check the squadron operational record book at all? if it was the channel dash it should mention what the sortie was for?

Could it be that he was on a plane that went in to rescue some of the returning ditched aircrew and they got caught aswell....
Dee

Hi mate, here's a little bit of info for you without getting terribly specific:

http://www.caithness.org/history/art...fwickpart3.htm

After being based at Skitten since October 1941, the Hudsons of No. 48 Squadron were transferred to Wick and would remain there for the next nine months. This squadron consisted of approximately 24 Hudsons divided into 'A' and 'B' flights. Fulfilling their role as a General Reconnaissance squadron, the Hudson crews were mainly engaged on anti-submarine patrols, convoy patrols, shipping strikes and maritime reconnaissance in the North Sea area. Operations off the Norwegian coast were conducted at night although the long summer evenings were to afford little protection.

The early months of No. 48 Squadron's tenure were difficult ones compounded by the bad weather and the loss of nine Hudsons, including one carrying the commanding officer. Some of these losses were caused by Hudsons making heavy landings and invariably catching fire. The snowfall was so heavy that the airmen didn't bother to clear the snow but just levelled it with a steam roller and marked a soot line down the middle of the runway for the landing aircraft to sight on. Group Captain E. L. Baudoux was to recall that Wick was the only aerodrome he was stationed on where the bar was kept open twenty-four hours a day because it was needed to keep the airmen warm. Similar conditions prevailed at nearby Skitten and a Beaufort navigator, Roy Nesbit, remembered the blizzard that raged outside his wooden hut day after day. The wind blew the snow into great drifts so that the hulls of the Beauforts "stood out like stranded whales above the snow".

Sergeant AIlen Willis, R.A.A.F., wrote home about his first few operations with No. 48 Squadron saying that he was "stuck away in the north of Scotland, a bleak and desolate dump just near John o' Groats". He described vividly the thrill of flying low over the water at ten feet as the aircraft went into the attack. The pilot opened up with his front guns, the bomb doors opened and then the aircraft pulled up over the masts just as the ship was at the receiving end of a stick of bombs.

In the first three months of 1942, No. 48 Squadron lost twenty crews on operations although the Spring brought an improvement in the squadron's fortunes. On the 24th April, a 2,000 tons' motor vessel was set on fire and three days later, a German oil depot was bombed and set on fire. The following month saw more shipping being attacked with a U-boat being damaged on 23rd May. On 13th June, no fewer than four U-boats were attacked of which one was damaged. In May same Hudsons were lost after entangling with Junkers Ju.88s. On ]7th May, Hudsons from the squadron formed part of a force of fifty-four aircraft which flew to south-west Norway to attack German naval units which included the heavy cruiser "Prinz Eugen" .

At the beginning of July, patrols along the Norwegian coastline were intensified as the ill-fated PQ-17 convoy was on passage For Murmansk. The Hudson crews were detailed to give warning, lest any of the large, German naval units should leave the fjords in a bid to intercept the convoy. That month saw the loss of one of No.48 Squadron's most outstandind and experienced pilots. Flight Lieutenant V.A. (Jim) Pedersen, a New Zealander, and his crew, Sergeants George Drogue, R.C.A.F., Thomas Langoulant and Allen Willis, R.A.A.F. , were shot down over the Trondheim/Standlandet area on 15th July while flying in Hudson, FH 378. "Jim" Pedersen had flown over 1,600 hours, mostly on Hudsons, including 125 operational flights.

Being based in Wick, it's highly unlikely they were involved in the Channel Dash.

Originally Posted by Antipodean Andy

Hi mate, here's a little bit of info for you without getting terribly specific:

http://www.caithness.org/history/art...fwickpart3.htm



Being based in Wick, it's highly unlikely they were involved in the Channel Dash.

Thank you very much for that, Andy. I guess it wraps it up. As you say, very unlikely that a squadron based at Wick would be involved in the Channel Dash. As was suggested earlier, I expect the similarity in the dates made the family think he was lost in the Channel action, and of course I doubt if the War Office gave a lot of detail at the time, so speculation was inevitable, and it slowly became fact.

Thanks to everyone who replied.

No worries at all.

Coastal Command squadrons did go on detachment regularly but unless Bobbie was on such a deployment already or he and his crew somehow happened to be in the area, the 'suddenness' of the Channel Dash would preclude 48 Sqn from being specially called on. As you can see from the link above, the weather was atrocious during this time where the squadrob was operating so not a pleasant time to be flying - ops or training.

I am looking into Coastal Command losses as we speak so hope to have more info specific to the loss for you.

I've asked around - after checking my Hudson books to no avail - and had an excellent response.

CULLINGHAM RD 921742 48 SQDN 23/02/1942
NEWCOMB FWR 61270 48 SQDN 23/02/1942
PURDUE JE 984761 48 SQDN 23/02/1942
STOTTER AJ 984799 48 SQDN 23/02/1942

Four crew, all 48 Sqn and all on Feb 23. There's your Hudson crew. A bit more digging with these extra names and I only came up with a bit more on Newcomb:

http://www.kentfallen.com/PDF%20REPORTS/MEOPHAM.pdf

NEWCOMB, FREDERICK WILLIAM ROBERT. Flying Officer, 61270.
Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. 48 Squadron, Royal Air Force.
Died 23 February 1942. Age 28.
Son of Frederick William Newcomb, and of Lena Newcomb (neé French) of Hook Green, Meopham, Kent.
Husband of Betty Newcomb (neé Tucker) of Hook Green, Meopham, Kent.
Commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial. Panel 67.

Hoping to find some details on the loss itelf shortly.

Thanks again for your efforts on my behalf, Andy.